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126560-possible-solution-to-power-creep
Content ---- I like this solution, keep the runes powerful but reduce the amount required and simplify the system. When an addon is pretty much required to use the rune system to its full potential the system is probably to complex and confusing. | |} ---- ---- A fresh blue character does 4 times less the damage of a legendary DS equipped character of the same class. Don't believe me? Deck yourself out in the blues and compare :) | |} ---- That's the deal with Power creep ain't it though. It gets bigger and bigger if left unchecked which is why I want to address it now and not in a year. Although gear doesn't make a player, it does help way more than you could imagine. I could also pretend like there isn't a power creep and benefit on my own. It's not I'm not using DS gear either. I don't want to touch on the itemization in this case because there really is no need to. Nerfing rune slots is just blatantly a easier solution and it could even help with certain issues (Complexity of the rune system for new players. I'm sure new players get a hang of it eventually, but if you really need an addon to do it for you, then the system has failed somewhere) | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ...So your solution to the fact that the top gear is too strong is to nerf the crap out of everyone's gear so that the rest of the game remains challenging to the top 1%? What do you think is going to happen to the bottom 99% when you implement this? Or does that not matter? | |} ---- Glad you asked! Was my solution to that. Which I wrote in my first post as well. This is mostly aimed at future content. For all I care they could nerf Dungeons/GA/DS by blanket 20%. | |} ---- Right, but see my concern wasn't just about dungeons and raids, my concern is that you're proposing a gamewide nerf of everyone by quite a lot in all content, when the problem you're describing only exists for people in the top gear tiers. If the problem is that power accelerates too rapidly in Glory-level gear, the solution is to make the power growth more shallow for Glory-level gear. Not to revamp the entire gear system. | |} ---- What is your concern with a gamewide nerf in all content exactly? I'm aware that shiphands, adventures & farming trash mobs/dailies constitutes as content on it's own, but these elements are already past the point of being trivial w/ regards to your characters power. You'll still be able to do gold veteran shiphands on your own regardless, because the challenges presented in said Shiphands aren't related to killing some Uber mob or many mobs in a short time span. Veteran Adventures don't present their challenges through any extraordinary hard mobs either. It's mainly based on how your team works together. Farming mobs? I don't assume you're the kind of player that farms the R-12 Prime mobs for reputation? Point is, casual content will remain casual content regardless of the rune slot power. The "hardcore" content will definitely be affected big time by the lack of rune slot power, which is why it's basically a necessity to nerf the content's HP /DMG/values by X amount to make up for the loss of power. What exactly are you concerned about in regards to all the other content then? | |} ---- No, those elements are already past the point of being trivial with regards to your character's power. But not everyone is you. You may have noticed, while you one-shot your way through the world content, players who have to swing their weapon multiple times just to kill random world trash. You may have spotted players waiting around near 5-man content because they can't just waltz up by themselves and solo it easily. Or people asking for help with missions. Those people do not share your opinion of how the rest of the game is past the point of being trivial. My concern is that in your quest to make the rest of the game more relevant to the raiders, you're proposing to nerf everyone--including entry-level 50s, casuals, and people who mostly play solo. None of those players are running the dungeons and raids, their endgame progression was capped out much earlier than yours by deliberate game design. Most of those players are, at best, currently increasing their power level through the contract system and will be doing so for quite some time to come because that gear is RNGtastic, all of the most rewarding contracts involve group content, and casuals are... well, casual. They don't farm stuff for 12 hours straight just to maximize their potential. The rest of the game isn't trivially easy to everyone just because it's trivially easy to you. Scaling down all gear just takes those players who aren't at the top and squeezes them out entirely. This game doesn't have enough players to do that. Not even close. So if you really feel that there's a need to make the rest of the game more relevant to top-tier players, either lobby to change the absurdly supralinear power scaling of Glory gear while leaving the rest alone, or--and here's a solution that requires no developer effort at all--try taking that gear off and run the same content in green iLevel 50 gear. | |} ---- You said exactly what I was thinking. It's like raiders complaining that a boss is too easy or can be cheesed after they've downed it several times and gotten gear upgrades from it. So the boss is buffed, which isn't a problem for the people who already got the gear but it's a very real barrier for people who haven't gotten there yet. | |} ---- Except that there's always a natural progression curve in terms of gear when it comes to raiding. You always expect a DPS increase if the gear is better, but have to ask yourself where we are in a year if every upgrade increases your DPS by 1k per gear piece. In terms of high end PvE content I suggested that everything get a flat 10-20% nerd depending on the impact of rune slot reduction to keep everything as it currently is. I just don't see a point bothering with outdoor mobs regardless if it's your end game. They die as within first 10 seconds regardless if you're Datascape geared or blue PvP healing gear w/ no amps/ap and using dps amps + las. That fact does not change with rune slots. Btw when people wanted Elemental Pairs buffed/fixed I was personally not a fan. Buffing content 4 months after it's been on farm for high end guilds is sketchy to me. Many more guilds that are progressing said bosses/has recently killed them would have to regress again, which is honestly a bad thing (though some pairs needed the buff/fix). Again, this is not a casual crusade I'm leading. This will hit harder at high end players if anything. | |} ---- ---- I believe you when you say that you're not intentionally trying to smack down casuals with these changes. But you will smack them down hard with these changes, intentionally or not. Exactly this. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- I actually don't think that it will be that much of a difference with the addition of miniboss weapons. While the power gains between GA>DS gear are fairly large, the ones within DS gear are smaller. By the time you get to the pairs, you have enough bosses on farm that you should have a decent amount of DS gear in your raid. The exception to that was the lack of DS weapons early on, which they addressed at the same time as the change. Most of the complaints have been about guilds that have already killed them re-progressing, which I can understand, but it's a different discussion about making raid changes (although, I'm perfectly willing to re-progress if it means the fight is not faceroll, I know others aren't). The point that stands is that the effects of power creep were not at all uniform across DS. Nerfing all gear would make other bosses difficult for guilds that needed a bit of help from power creep to progress in DS. I'd be way more bummed about having to re-progress on SD because suddenly adds aren't dying as fast and pillar damage is lower than we are used to than having to actually learn the mechanics on pairs. The alternative to not having power creep is to have ongoing raid nerfs. As much as I love a good challenge, you can't keep raids at the same difficulty level over a content cycle. Honestly, I'd rather see power creep since it gives incentive to keep working on fights and getting the fights you have completed on farm. It also gives incremental help as your raid gears up instead of - suddenly, boss is 5% easier. | |} ---- So raid gear is there to nerf dungeons? That makes little sense since you need to have dungeons completed to enter a raid. | |} ---- ---- No they made pre-raid gear better, more accessible, and doesn't it have more grit now? | |} ---- You are missing the point. You reduce the HP to make the difficulty of the content the same because of reduced power. Why reduce power you are asking, well to reduce the difference between for example dungeon gear and raid gear so what happends is there is less grow in gear (power creep) and so content the content you out grow atleast keeps somewhat challenging. And you can make the rune set so that you need less runes to make a set. | |} ---- Psssst. CK is trolling. | |} ---- yo dont blow my cover like that bro. a mans gotta make money somehow | |} ---- Ah, of course. You're both trolling. Suddenly the typo in your OP makes more sense. Silly me, should've seen it right away. | |} ---- Just notice it's ck... | |} ---- Google translate couldn't save me this time... On-topic: I merely suggested a way they could handle Power Creep. If they were to ever address it, it probably would be a lot different from what I suggested anyways. Though to me, there is a undeniable amount of Power Creep going on, and it's not Carbine's way of nerfing the content. Or at least that was definitely not their original intent. | |} ---- Google translate didn't turn "gist" into "jest". But nice try. | |} ---- ---- power creep is definitely an issue.or will be later on. already if you are DS geared the new content (star comm basin) is a joke. that will only get worst. and is also more demanding on the devs. what level of content should they develop? when the playerbase is split into so many different power levels... then you will have new players coming into the game and they will queue for stormtalon and get into with a DS geared wrecking crew. it will be lame. honestly there is no excuse to design a game with power creep nowadays. either do it gw2 style or find a more innovative progression system. thing is "innovation" doesnt rhyme with "wildstar".... and add this on top of the many reasons why people sailed away. | |} ---- New players don't give a crap except to wish they had the gear. If you're in a group of total noobs blowing up a vet dungeon they will be grateful to learn the mechanics without dying instantly and get a quick step on the way to attunement. | |} ---- this type of thinking demonstrate why wildstar is being deserted. was even more obvious in pvp before they "normalized" the gear. same thing for pve. the few people left who still like to put in 1000hours to get gear(aka: +1 power "yeah!") are not enough at this point. take my words for it. you won't see AAA mmos being released with that segregating philosophy anymore. that.is.over. | |} ---- You're right. Datascape gear in level 50 pve zones is exactly the reason why WildStar lost all of those subs. Why didn't they think of that 8 months ago? | |} ---- the bottleneck endgame, the powercreep, the linear path to gearing (basically: attunement - GA - DS) and nothing else that matters is part of it, yes. they destroy their own content by giving out "+1 power" as candies. levels, is an outdated concept. or need some serious tweaking, like gw2 and skyrim. moderator edit: language Edited May 24, 2015 by Chillia | |} ----